The Daily Losses We Face feat Alfredo Santiago
In this episode of Room at the Table, Betsy Cerulo and therapist Alfredo Santiago explore the universal experience of grief, healing, and rebuilding. Alfredo shares how grief shows up in everyday life, how to honor the love behind the pain, and why connection and community are essential during difficult times.
Drawing on his work with LGBTQ, BIPOC, and immigrant communities, Alfredo emphasizes that there is no timeline for grief and that each person deserves permission to feel joy again, even while missing someone they love. He provides practical self-care strategies, including music, movement, and journaling, to help navigate emotional pain and support mental wellness.
Listeners will learn how to create space for their emotions, embrace supportive connections, and honor memories without judgment. Alfredo also discusses how grief can coexist with joy and highlights the importance of acknowledging both the pain and the love that remains.
Whether you’re navigating a personal loss, supporting someone who is grieving, or looking to better understand emotional resilience, this episode offers compassionate insights and actionable guidance. By the end, you’ll understand how grief is a form of love and how intentional self-care and community connection can foster healing and hope.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ Why grief is a powerful expression of love
✅ How connection supports healing after loss
✅ Gentle self-care practices to navigate emotional pain
✅ Why emotions deserve acknowledgment rather than suppression
✅ Ways to remain open to future possibilities while honoring the past
Want more insights on creating a heart-centered, tech-savvy workplace? Subscribe, share, and join Betsy Cerulo each week on Room at the Table as we explore leadership, innovation, and building inclusive workplaces.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction: Welcoming the conversation on grief
04:45 Why light and ritual support connection
09:10 Helping those reluctant to seek emotional support
13:25 Self-awareness and self-care for those holding space
28:30 Grief as love and staying open to joy
34:40 Why you never put a timeline on healing
38:20 How to reach Alfredo for support
Key Takeaways:
💎 You are never alone in grief, even when it feels isolating
💎 There is no set timeline for healing or emotional expression
💎 Joy and connection do not diminish the love you still hold
💎 Speaking emotions honors truth and supports recovery
Guest Bio:
Alfredo Santiago, LCSW-C, is a licensed certified social worker at Chase Brexton Health Services and founder of Peace and Strength Counseling, LLC, providing compassionate care to LGBTQ, POC, Latinx immigrants, refugees, at-risk youth, and those navigating grief. With experience at Baltimore City Department of Social Services, Veterans Administration Hospital, and Sinai Hospital, Alfredo brings a trauma-informed, strength-based approach to supporting marginalized communities. He holds a Master’s in Social Work from the University of Maryland, an M.A. from Wesley Theological Seminary, volunteers with several social justice organizations, and is a proud parent to Marvin and Chuck the boxer dog.
Alfredo Santiago LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alfredo-santiago-3b09513/
About ALfredo Santiago: https://chasebrexton.org/alfredo-santiago
About ALfredo Santiago: https://leafedu.org/alfredo-santiago/
Resources & Mentions:
More episodes at: http://roomatthetablepodcast.com
SEO Keywords:
Room at the Table, Betsy Cerulo, heart-centered workplace, insightful conversations, equality, inclusive workplaces, exceptional leadership, enhancing workplace culture, grief support, emotional healing, mental health therapy, grief, joy, healing, mental health support, mental health in the workplace, therapy, tools for grief, grief and loss, grief counseling, mental health, understanding grief and bereavement, loss of a loved one, grief rituals, mental health awareness
Transcript
Room at the Table Ep 7 The Daily Losses We Face feat Alfredo Santiago
[:[00:00:26] I am Betsy Cerulo, your host, and welcome to my guest today, Alfredo Santiago, a behavioral health expert with Chase Brexton Healthcare located in Maryland. Today, we are talking about grief and the many forms it shows up in. So pull up a chair, enjoy your favorite beverage, and let's get started. Welcome, Alfredo.
[:[00:00:52] Alfredo Santiago: Um, fine. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. I'm really excited about being here today.
[:[00:01:08] So from your opinion, what are you seeing? What forms of grief are you encountering now with your cust, with your patients?
[:[00:01:29] So sometimes grief is not the loss already happened. It's as you're walking through it and preparing for it, there's an aspect of loss. So a lot of fear.
[:[00:01:40] Alfredo Santiago: And I hear the word, um, I'm scared. Yes. Um, sad, angry, anxious. So that seems to be the, um, the culture lately in my session since January, uh, 2025.
[:[00:02:06] And it is so hard to call someone who's done so well and say, this has nothing to do with your performance. So, you know, fortunately we have a wonderful team of very caring, compassionate, and loving, uh, recruiters that they know how to, how to field it. And, um. But it is, it is a sad time right now. And of course when things are like this, it does make us more resilient.
[:[00:02:58] And so there's, uh, [00:03:00] uh, there's a lot of reflection on that nostalgia. And sometimes it evokes sadness and sometimes it, it, it breeds, you know, a smile of gratitude for that good times. Do you see that as well sometimes?
[:[00:03:21] Mm-hmm. Um, with my folks who are just, um, remembering places, um, where, where they come from and the loss of that, um, place of moving and migrating and just moving from even in, within the United States, moving from region to region, but also, um, losing your identity. Like, um, my spouse died, so my identity was connected to my.
[:[00:04:19] Maybe four months ago, five months ago, they were in a position that they would hire people and interview people. So the roles change. So you lose your identity. Once you lose your, your role. Um, you, you experience grief. Once you lose your, your role and your identity, you're attached to, again, the level and you're attached to.
[:[00:04:49] Betsy Cerulo: Right. Right. And I think too, some of the grieving is also loss of one's voice because there have been, and there continued to be [00:05:00] many aspects where, uh.
[:[00:05:27] Alfredo Santiago: Agreed.
[:[00:05:42] Alfredo Santiago: Again, I'm Repeat the emotion, the strong emotion of fear of the unknown. Um, anxiety, uh, dysregulation, people's emotions like irritable, where they normally have a nice.
[:[00:06:09] Betsy Cerulo: Yes,
[:[00:06:17] And some people weren't writing and prepared to do so. No. So that, um, that definitely. Um, evokes a lot of anxiety and people in fear and uncertainty.
[:[00:06:46] It's not fine. It's not fine. And I, and, and my hope is for as. For all of us as, as we are going through changes that, you know, there's this shock when there's a loss, whatever that loss is, and [00:07:00] you know, to, to sit down and have the self-reflection, whether you're doing it with a professional or on your own, and really look at what if, you know, if this happens, what direction can I go and who can I ask for help.
[:[00:07:31] We're keeping it at bay. I gave the example to a friend of mine the other day about a volcano that, you know, we see the volcano and it's, it's a awesome, you know, thing to, to marvel at. But there's, there is. Things happening that we don't see within the amount of dirt, you know, it's, yeah. How many feet high, how many miles high, um, things are happening.
[:[00:08:15] But like anything that after a while, you know, you keep covered or compressed, it will erupt. Yes. And you, and you know, as a, as a descriptor. And it can play out with, uh, mental instability. It can play out in a aggression towards your loved ones, strangers. Yeah. So the now is not healthy. Um, although it, it has, it's sometime it's in the moment.
[:[00:08:50] Betsy Cerulo: Absolutely. And you know, I know even from my own experiences, I can get short sometimes with my [00:09:00] wife at the end of the workday and I've, fortunately she and I have done and continue to do a lot of inner work so I can, I catch myself and I'll say.
[:[00:09:38] Sadly, you know, we've all know people who have had women who have had miscarriages, and we tend to forget about the spouse too is also undergoing a loss. And I, and sometimes I think there's this perception and it could just be people are just. [00:10:00] And I don't like the word ignorant, but they don't understand the long-term impact.
[:[00:10:41] Alfredo Santiago: You know, I'm glad you mentioning that because this reminds me of like postpartum depression. People speak on that, right? Yes. And it's still, um, it's hard to admit, but there's also, um, perinatal depression. When people are pregnant in their pregnancy, they can already start developing pregnancies. Um, you know, you, you're, uh.
[:[00:11:24] Done. It's a shift. And some of us are not ready for that shift because that's not what the expectation is. So, um, I was actually, uh, at a mental health, health fair this weekend and one of the women, just like, she, she's like a lot of awareness. She was like, how about the partners? She was speaking specifically about the men, but you know, some women, our partner, other women, um, and so yeah, like we have to forget, remember that they're attached to somebody else.
[:[00:11:47] Alfredo Santiago: And not just a spouse or a loved one. It could even family members, other siblings that were looking forward to having, you know, a younger brother or sister. So, um, that needs to be taken, given attention to and the whole [00:12:00] thing that she's gonna be okay. They're gonna be okay. That approach is never.
[:[00:12:23] But just ask, asking it as if it's just a regular salutation, like good morning, hello, you know, even present for the person. E.
[:[00:12:47] Mm-hmm. But what I have seen and what I hear in a workplace, people don't know. Whether, whatever the loss is, so I'll, I'll, you know, take for instance, [00:13:00] when someone passes away, people don't know how to respond to it In a workplace, you don't have to have a long and drawn out. Um, I can just say from my own experiences, when I had some sudden losses in my family over the years, I had customers, if I went out to, to a meeting or to lunch, just.
[:[00:14:03] Alfredo Santiago: It is that inter um, the interaction, that compassionate moment, right? Yes. Like you said, this didn't even have to be a long, drawn on conversation. The fact that they acknowledged my loss. Um, some people want to get words of comfort, so, and they may be good at that. Some people are so eloquent of giving words of comfort and some people, for some people that might be awkward.
[:[00:14:21] Alfredo Santiago: But still just acknowledging, uh, you know, um, I'm thinking of you and how are you doing is a proper, appropriate question. Yeah. I think in our culture with I'm setting. Yes. Um, it's a wonderful thing, but sometimes our boundaries are too tight that we forget to be our genuine self to say, you know, that person experienced a loss.
[:[00:14:59] We can't, [00:15:00] um. Have a healthy grief process. If we isolate, it definitely takes others around you too. It's just to be there present for you. Absolutely. And work at home in your faith community and whatever your tribe is.
[:[00:15:28] So. There has to be a balance to that. Yes. How would you advise someone if you see that someone on your team or someone in the workplace just has continuous outpour of the grief during the workday? How do you advise people to to be with that in an appropriate way?
[:[00:15:57] No, because at the scenarios, around the [00:16:00] scenarios and every work culture is different. Like, do I get along with my coworker? Right. You know, uh, we colleagues and we're strictly business, or do we like, you know, have lunch together? It's, you know, different, different relationships giving in the workforce, you know, um, just again, being genuine, like, Hey, I noticed, um, I, your sadness.
[:[00:16:38] Betsy Cerulo: Yeah.
[:[00:16:40] Betsy Cerulo: And you know, the other thing too is. Uh, we companies will, regardless of the size, there's bereavement leave. Now sometimes you see bereavement leave three days a week, whichever. That doesn't mean that the grieving stops there. So from, as being a small business owner over the years when we've had that [00:17:00] happen, we can't necessarily give people, um, indefinite periods of time.
[:[00:17:28] And then, you know, let me know how you are tomorrow if you wanna come back tomorrow. So, you know, I, every situation is different and we have to be cognizant of that as leaders, that it's not a switch that flips, you know? And then, you know, the other, the other loss too that sometimes gets overlooked. Loss of a pet.
[:[00:17:56] Alfredo Santiago: Yes. Um, you know, uh, I have had [00:18:00] people see me for, um, loss of their, their pets, different pets, um, not just traditionally adults and cats, um, other, um, warm-blooded animals mouths. And, you know, it is, and you have to respect that and honor that.
[:[00:18:34] Bereaving for them from most places, but employers that are confession, they will pick up on that realize, oh my, this person, like if they have a picture of their, of their dog or a cat or other animal in their, in their office, it means a lot to them. Yeah. Um, and again, we're very
[:[00:18:50] Alfredo Santiago: Yeah.
[:[00:19:09] No one can be a hundred percent present after a loss of a loved one. Yeah. No one,
[:[00:19:32] I remember I took a deep breath before I put my hand on the, uh, the doorknob, and I walked in and I, and I just leaned against the door and I, you know, I have such a wonderful staff and they just greeted me with hugs and, and that made all the difference in the world. Mm-hmm. You know, again, not every workplace is like, that doesn't mean that you go rushing up to somebody.
[:[00:20:12] Alfredo Santiago: Yeah. Because we not, you know, there's nothing that, and in school they talk about grief.
[:[00:20:35] Some people, um, might have a ritual a year later after the person dies or they might bury them, um, or cremate them and then bury the remains and have a, or have a worship service or honoring them. Um. Six months out, you know? Right. And some people are like. Wait a minute. You didn't have closure yet. Like, no, it's, it's a process is what we do.
[:[00:21:07] Betsy Cerulo: different ethnicities have different ways that they grieve. Mm-hmm. You know, I've certainly seen, um, I'm from an Italian upbringing.
[:[00:21:37] We, we understand it more because as you get older sometimes the grief is, is so profound and, um, we don't make fun of it anymore. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll say that.
[:[00:21:57] Um, I'm from New Jersey, by the way also, [00:22:00] so, uh, and I was raised around a lot of Italian Americans. Um, I'm a Puerto, I'm Puerto Rican descent. And so for us, you know, um, after a person dies a month, a month later, people are prayed for their soul to go to heaven. Those to are Catholic and practice that. Yeah.
[:[00:22:30] Betsy Cerulo: Yes.
[:[00:22:34] This, and people have to also pay attention to that. The first, you say, the first Thanksgiving After my father died, I remembered, um, I would go up to New Jersey, um, to, for Thanksgiving weekends. And as soon as I got on Route 95, immediately I got route On Route 95, I started to cry and I was like, why am I crying?
[:[00:23:11] And I knew two things that I would not receive that, um, phone call that sometimes I took for granted. And that, that he wouldn't be at the other end, um, of that drive to receive me. Right? So we can be triggered at any given times in moments that we least expect it to happen.
[:[00:23:30] It was almost as though as soon as I crossed the Delaware Memorial Bridge, the phone rang so that the meal was hot.
[:[00:23:40] Betsy Cerulo: Yeah. And so now when I'm on business trips and I know I'm gonna drive through New Jersey, I'll stop at the cemetery. And you know, I think at this time in my life, when I drive up to the cemetery now I'm at a point where I'm just like, I feel a sense of peace when I'm there.
[:[00:24:25] And of course there's times when it's sad. Um, but, you know, I guess that brings me to, to balance. So how can we balance out our grief to keep our souls calm? What do you recommend?
[:[00:24:47] Minutes that you were there, brought you a lot of peace and connection. So, um, being aware of what connects you, um, sounds like you wanna go to a cemetery, uh, go to somewhere outdoors. Uh, it could be a [00:25:00] lake, a river, a ocean. Sometime it's, uh, a, a special spot that you shared, you know, together a restaurant, uh, for people that.
[:[00:25:14] Betsy Cerulo: Yeah.
[:[00:25:24] And, uh, just like cards, uh, and when I watch them play. It brings me, um, like joy because my father loved dominoes. Mm-hmm. And they, and I see their interactions and the words they say in Spanish that my father would use. And just moments like that bring comfort. They might not even know it, but as you're sitting there in that space, it fills you.
[:[00:25:54] Betsy Cerulo: There have been times over the years that, um, you. I would set a [00:26:00] place at the table at my grandmother's birthday or my mom's birthday. Um, my brother, who I'd earlier spoken of, who passed away on his birthday in October, I eat a piece of chocolate chocolate cake.
[:[00:26:31] Alfredo Santiago: And because it does, it has a lot of value.
[:[00:26:49] Mm-hmm. And hopefully there's others to help us along the journey. But, um, focusing on self-care and also knowing what I, what I need today to get through this day. Yeah. Hopefully something and something [00:27:00] healthy,
[:[00:27:14] And one of the things she had recommended is when I wanna have a conversation and talk to my mom or my grandmother or my brothers to light a candle. So I have, you know, a, a across in my office, I have, I'll call it a little altar with special things on it. And, um, when I feel that. Mode. I mean, I can talk to them anytime, but when I feel like I wanna have a certain type of conversation, I'll Jim, the lights, usually in the evening I'll light the candle and I'll just sit there and reflect or I'll ask a question and you know, again, this is something, it's simple.
[:[00:28:11] Alfredo Santiago: No, it's interesting. Candles are, it's so symbolic for so many people in so many cultures.
[:[00:28:17] Alfredo Santiago: Um, so I mean, for a lot of us, it, it, um, also stands for light in life. So a lot of people do reflect, um, having candles lit, um, you know, um. Was it Elton John? Um, the candle in the wind, the song. Yes. You know? Yeah. And talked a lot about light and you know, our, sometimes with their, um, we blow out the candle, um, but even as we blow the candle, there's still that, that smoke that Right, that kind of rises like almost embolic.
[:[00:29:05] Allow yourself to feel your emotions. Allow yourself to feel connected. Um. Yeah, the quietness, there's, there's, there's a healing balm in the quietness and the intentional quietness to connect with the memory of our loved one.
[:[00:29:32] So when you talk to a person who is reluctant, and I have certainly encountered people who are reluctant. To finding wellbeing support, what do you suggest to them to perhaps open their minds to the possibility?
[:[00:30:00] So kind of respecting that and just, I think a lot of times just telling people when you're ready and if you're ready, and these are some resources for you, and you give them two or three and like, um, resources that are, that you could, they can access at any time. Right. Um, you know, I, you know. You don't have to speak to me, but, uh, I'm available when you're ready or, hey, you don't have to speak to me.
[:[00:30:53] But some people may not be ready to share it, but just make yourself available that I'm, I'm here for you. [00:31:00] Yeah. Or I can direct you to someone else.
[:[00:31:22] So what do you do as, as the receiver to care for yourself?
[:[00:31:48] Um, ready or not? I have to be present in this moment, but the aftercare, I might have to go for a walk, drink a water, um, put on my favorite music, um, movements. I definitely believe, um, [00:32:00] music and movement really helps people heal. Um, it doesn't matter if you're, um, uh, have, have any physical disabilities, even in your seats, you know, just movement and just to kind of get familiar with your body and how you're feeling in the moment.
[:[00:32:14] Betsy Cerulo: I, I, that is, I have certainly done a lot of different work where. Movement and music have been wonderful. And then the, the journaling of the feeling. Sometimes there's, there's so much that that comes out in the written word, however you choose, whether you're on a computer, whether you're doing pen and paper.
[:[00:33:08] Alfredo Santiago: Um, I'm gonna say this and I don't want to, hopefully it doesn't sound cliche, but you are not alone. A lot of times we feel this deep sadness and aloneness because a person is not long, no longer with me or us. Um, but you're not alone because there are other people to support you. They may not be able to be that, they're not gonna be that person.
[:[00:33:58] Um, but [00:34:00] also as we detached, we still carry that with us, right? That doesn't just get, um. Cut off, there's no longer a connection to that person that plays that position. Um, that is still part of our experience and part of our whole narrative, our life narrative. Yeah.
[:[00:34:25] And even though in the moment someone can't see it, I've certainly been there where I just can't see it yet, is too. At some point in your process or your feeling is to leave yourself open to a possibility, however that could look
[:[00:34:44] Betsy Cerulo: Yeah.
[:[00:34:46] Mm-hmm. But then I'm open maybe, you know, in a year from now, two years from now. Now what I never do is tell people that you should be over it by now.
[:[00:34:54] Alfredo Santiago: for too long. That is the most insensitive, um, comedy you can ever make telling anyone, [00:35:00] or you'll get over it in, uh, two or three more months.
[:[00:35:07] Betsy Cerulo: Right. You could have someone, you have lost someone. Decades ago and something comes across you that just triggers an emotion of whatever that could be. And, and yeah, we have to acknowledge it, be sensitive.
[:[00:35:34] Alfredo Santiago: To Readjust ii, I just wanted to say, a lot of times when we talk about grief, this is. It's like a sadness. It's not a happy topic, but the happiness and the joy is that I was connected to this person who I, who I loved and who loved me, and why am I missing them?
[:[00:36:18] And I have his DNA, so I had that characteristic also. And then I start laughing when I see people, I say, oh, they didn't get it. Yeah, I didn't deliver it or I didn't deliver it very well. And so I chuckle because. It reminds me of my father. Right. I don't break, I don't cry. I don't get serious. I laugh out loud.
[:[00:36:52] Betsy Cerulo: Yeah. Grief is a form of love.
[:[00:36:58] Betsy Cerulo: Yes,
[:[00:37:11] Betsy Cerulo: and, and honor it. Um, you know, one last thing. One of the things, when I have gone through a loss, I seem to have given myself permission to, well, maybe.
[:[00:37:44] Alfredo Santiago: That's self care. Again, that's self-compassion.
[:[00:38:04] It's almost like if you do anything that doesn't, that brings you joy in that year. It's almost like, like sinful, you know? Like, uh, but no, like you're, you're allowed to experience joy.
[:[00:38:14] Alfredo Santiago: your loved one, I will hope, will want to experience that. You'll experience joy.
[:[00:38:32] Alfredo Santiago: Well, um, I'm, I work at Chief Brexton Health Services. Um, it's a small, um. Community health center in Maryland and what I work at a Baltimore office specifically, so they can reach me at my email, which is the easiest way, is aSantiago@chasebrexton.org, aSantiago@chasebrexton.org. Whether they're a patient here or not, I can make myself available to, um, give them [00:39:00] resources locally or nationally.
[:[00:39:26] Alfredo Santiago: Well, I thank you for the invitation and I thank you for your sharing your, um, your stories about your loss and how you comforted yourself. I really, I really appreciate it that it brings a lot of, um, comfort to other people I'm sure who are listening and watching this morning.
[:[00:39:44] May you find so much love in your heart and be gentle with yourself and know that you can find us anytime and just continue to love. And again, grief is a form of love. So take good care and [00:40:00] thanks
[:[00:40:00] Betsy Cerulo: today.
[:[00:40:07] And share this episode with a colleague or two or three for resources to help you lead with purpose and build more equitable workplaces. Visit room at the table podcast com.
